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Interesting Links for 01-04-2012
Illuminati
andrewducker

Original post on Dreamwidth - there are comment count unavailable comments there.

I copied the Hero's Journey post into MS Word and then changed it to sentence case, at which point it became infinitely easier to read.

You have more patience than me. I struggled through the first couple of paragraphs and just gave up.

Select all in the browser.. In Word...

lsanderson

2012-04-01 03:33 pm (UTC)

Ctrl-V -- Paste All
Ctrl-A -- Select All
Shift-F3 -- Toggle Case
Shift-F3 -- Toggle Case

I think you need to toggle it twice to get to sentence case.

Re: Select all in the browser.. In Word...

bracknellexile

2012-04-01 03:36 pm (UTC)

Cheers, but what I meant was I couldn't be bothered going away and converting it. The original article just annoyed me too much so I gave up on the whole thing.

5 Ways Modern Men Are Trained to Hate Women - point #1 contains a take-down of the limitations of George R R Martin's writing abilities. And world-building.

Only quibble with the women's clothes one is that I AM a "slimline hourglass" and clothes don't fit me either....

I really hope they did the all caps thing with CSS rather than actual caps so we can firebug it off to make it actually readable... oh wait. FAIL.

I found 5 ways in which men are trained to hate women, just plain factually inaccurate, dehumanizing of men, apologoistic, and full of "no, that's just you" quotes. Some of the points actually had reference as well as sense, but by misidentifying what he is talking about* he makes the whole article offensive.

I don't think nonsense like that helps anyone.


* e.g. the "hero gets a woman, I think I'm a hero, thus I deserve a woman at the end of it": this is both real, and quite bad. Just 'cos you do heroic stuff doesn't actually mean that some woman you fancy will or indeed should automatically fall in love with you. However, the "I'm the protagonist of my life, thus I'm a galaxy-saving hero" argument doesn't follow for all men, just self-deluded douchebags, presumably of which the author is one.

It seems to follow for massive swathes of immature people, being a stage that vast numbers of people seem to go through, and a large chunk seem to get stuck in for a long time.

It's kind of true, but I although I know a lot of people love to think they're great, I don't think they really think they have done great deeds, which equate to saving the galaxy in a real world context. As such, I don't think the argument really follows for many people.

However, the woman-as-reward thing is clear objectification, he's just really over-egged it.

The apologism is kind of in the opposite direction to what I'd expect from a 'feminist' post such as this one. He seems to be arguing that men are all base creatures, who think only of sex. Well, I'm a man, and I don't actually think of it that often. I don't think I actually know anyone who's as obsessed with it as he claims to be.

I think this sort of "Men are all like this, amoral, instinct led creatures" (who, presumably could rape at any second) claim, is promoting a way of looking at the world which simply isn't true, and actually encourages men to be the amoral douchebags he seems to be trying to rail against. For the rest of us men, it's just telling lies which provide women more reason to fear and hate us all. It's awful.


I agree that it simplifies things, and that the whole "Men are incapable of controlling their bestial actions" thing is a stereotype that demeans men. It is worryingly accurate _up to a point_ far too much of the time though - not from men who will rape at the drop of a hat, but certainly of men who will treat women as objects to be appreciated for their looks.

In a funny way, that's kind of the thing that makes me dislike it so much, it is quite intelligent, and it's pointing at some genuinely unusual and interesting points, but all the while, just because the author's got a screamingly high libido, he's enabling the whole culture of it. I got no end of trouble at school for not behaving exactly like the way "all men are" that the author describes, and I think it's got to be terribly easy to just go along with that, regardless of what you're actually like.

I think if someone's really serious about making an equal world, then these "most men are like that, most of the time" sweeping generalisation are very backward. I think that "men have to be sex obsessed" is a similar big societal pressure to "women have to look pretty", I think throwing your hands up and saying "Oh! I admit it, I'm one of these awful, awful men" is pathetic, as it's declaring that you *are* the stereotype, and denying the essential humanity and decency of 50% of the human population.

I found the article demeaning actually.

The generalisation about how men think about sex and the dignity of work was, to be honest, insulting to me.

I once had the great good fortune to be able to stand inside a $100m gas turbine talking to two engineers, one who had built it back in the early 90’s when it was state of the art and the other who was designing the current state of the art. One of them pointed out that the ceramic tiles we were standing on were the same as the tiles on the Space Shuttle.

I was standing there thinking “Wow, I’m helping to fix something that’s as cool as the Space Shuttle and which keeps all the lights in Liverpool on; and I get paid to do it. I’m touching Space Shuttle tiles, how effing cool is that?!!”

I wasn’t thinking “Wow this big machine and my huge pay check will really help me get laid in Runcorn tonight.”

It was interesting, but I didn't find a number of his arguments convincing or even close to universally applicable, either.

I never find any arguments about either gender or culture universally applicable :->

Unfortunately the author claims his arguments are.

"See, every single male..."
"all of those powerful people only became powerful because they heard that women like power."
"It's why every Nice Guy..."

And that's just the obvious examples. The article's written entirely from the POV that the author is speaking for All Men ("we", meaning "men", is used in all sorts of generalisations.).


Edited at 2012-04-01 09:19 pm (UTC)

I pretty-much expect readers to take that kind of thing with a grain of salt. I certainly sail over that kind of thing without actually believing that it's accurate for all people.

Well yeah, taking this kind of thing with a grain of salt is necessary and becomes easy with time and a good dose of No, Seriously, What About Teh Menz.

I’d be worried if this was the first thing the Captain read about gender relations because I think it says – all men are just naturally sex obsessed, shallow and driven to be successful (in limited fields of manly endeavour) in order to gain sex; and this means you. You’re naturally scum and you can’t help it.


It does seem to have a theme of "all men think with their dicks all the time, and are totally brainwashed by media but never notice it".

I suppose it's one way to get men to do that less though.

I think the tone is more "This is an inevitable fact about the way men are", which would have quite the opposite effect imho.

I was interested in visiting both Cuba and Canada, but certainly won't be doing so. Will be kinda upset if it eventually extends to flights covering mainland Europe.

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